Beursonline.nl

Henk@Ingrid 12 juli 2022 04:14

0

quote:
jowi schreef op 10 juli 2022 11:27:
www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/60342448/...

vertrouwen-daalt-wordt-onze-euro-een-lege-schelp

Vandaar relatief veel NL huishoudens beleggen in Crypto.

eur/usd 1,5601 (juli 2008)
eur/usd 1,0025 (heden)

efreddy 12 juli 2022 08:30

1

quote:
Fred 60 schreef op 10 juli 2022 11:47:
[...]

Een vaag begrip.
€ 100,- aan crypto's is geen belegging.

En waarom is dat geen belegging?

Wat is de definitie van beleggen?
Een belegging is een investering waarbij geld wordt vastgelegd voor kortere of langere tijd, met als doel om in de toekomst financieel voordeel te behalen. Beleg je geld, dan steek je geld in een specifiek beleggingsproduct in de hoop om daar in de toekomst een positief rendement mee te behalen.

beleggen.info/beleggen/definitie

Duym 12 juli 2022 12:45

2

quote:
efreddy schreef op 12 juli 2022 08:30:
[...]

En waarom is dat geen belegging?

Wat is de definitie van beleggen?
Een belegging is een investering waarbij geld wordt vastgelegd voor kortere of langere tijd, met als doel om in de toekomst financieel voordeel te behalen. Beleg je geld, dan steek je geld in een specifiek beleggingsproduct in de hoop om daar in de toekomst een positief rendement mee te behalen.

beleggen.info/beleggen/definitie

Is elke week een pak loterijbriefjes kopen dan ook een belegging?

efreddy 12 juli 2022 12:53

0

quote:
Duym schreef op 12 juli 2022 12:45:
[...]

Is elke week een pak loterijbriefjes kopen dan ook een belegging?

Nee,want daar haal je geen voordeel uit,dat geld ben je kwijt.

voda 12 juli 2022 15:15

2

Thijs (22) kocht voor 7000 euro aan cryptomunten: ‘Zijn nu nog maar een derde waard’

GELD & GELUK
In deze rubriek vragen we lezers naar hun relatie tussen Geld en Geluk. Na zijn studie wil Thijs in vastgoed investeren. ‘Mijn cryptomunten zijn nog maar een derde waard van wat ik heb betaald.’

Edith Andriesse > 11-07-22, 10:00

‘Met mijn bijbaan bij een bedrijf in de installatietechniek, waar ik 32 uur per maand werk, verdien ik zo’n 600 euro per maand. Ik had goed gespaard voor mijn studie, door veel te werken. Daarom hoef ik nu niet te lenen.

Het is prima te doen. Mijn huur is maar 310 euro in de maand, inclusief gas, water en licht.

Voor meer, zie link:

www.ad.nl/geld/thijs-22-kocht-voor-70...

Fred 62 12 juli 2022 17:51

1

quote:
efreddy schreef op 12 juli 2022 08:30:
[...]

En waarom is dat geen belegging?

Wat is de definitie van beleggen?
Een belegging is een investering waarbij geld wordt vastgelegd voor kortere of langere tijd, met als doel om in de toekomst financieel voordeel te behalen. Beleg je geld, dan steek je geld in een specifiek beleggingsproduct in de hoop om daar in de toekomst een positief rendement mee te behalen.

beleggen.info/beleggen/definitie

Het is hier al vermeld.
Voor de meesten is het een gokje.
Dat is deelnemen aan een piramidespel over het
algemeen , zit je vroeg in de keten dan spring je
er misschien uit , ben je te laat dat betaal je de
rijkdom van anderen.
De meesten weten dat en denken niet aan de €100,-
verlies.

Leefloon 12 juli 2022 18:53

1

quote:
efreddy schreef op 12 juli 2022 08:30:
Beleg je geld, dan steek je geld in een specifiek beleggingsproduct

in de hoop om daar in de toekomst een positief rendement mee te behalen.

Cryptomeuk is geen beleggingsproduct.

Zo'n definitie is net zo krom als die bewering dat "beleggen" hetzelfde is als "hopen". Toch bedankt voor de poging tot onderbouwing,

voda 13 juli 2022 09:18

1

Bitcoin zakt weer onder de 20.000 dollar
ANP Producties - Gisteren om 22:25
© ANP

AMSTERDAM (ANP/BLOOMBERG) - Bitcoin is weer onder de 20.000 dollar gezakt. De cryptomunt verloor voor de vierde dag op rij aan waarde, terwijl de munt in de periode daarvoor juist weer aan een voorzichtige opmars bezig was. Op dinsdag speelde bitcoin 5,6 procent kwijt tot 19.275 dollar.

Een exacte verklaring voor de daling is moeilijk. Beleggers vrezen mogelijk dat de hogere rentetarieven van de Amerikaanse Federal Reserve leiden tot economische krimp. Cryptomunten worden gezien als risicovolle investeringen en wanneer de rente stijgt, kiezen veel investeerders ervoor om minder risico te nemen.

Op 1 januari van dit jaar was bitcoin nog ruim 47.000 dollar waard. Vorig jaar november piekte de digitale munt op meer dan 68.000 dollar.

[verwijderd] 13 juli 2022 09:19

0

Gelukkig zijn banken wel veilig:

Chinezen eisen geld terug bij banken na schandalen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duizenden rekeninghouders hebben zich maandag verzameld voor de Centrale Bank van de Volksrepubliek China. De protesten zijn het resultaat van een schandaal waarbij vier banken in Henan hun tegoeden hebben bevroren.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.nu.nl/294071/video/chinezen-eisen...

[verwijderd] 13 juli 2022 09:23

0

En kunnen we ook altijd de regering vertrouwen:

China crushes mass protest by bank depositors demanding their life savings back
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edition.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/chin...

[verwijderd] 13 juli 2022 09:31

0

Grayscale Files Lawsuit Against SEC Over Spot Bitcoin ETF Rejection
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grayscale Investments, the world’s largest digital currency asset manager, has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) challenging the securities regulator’s decision to reject its application to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust to a spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund (ETF).

Grayscale Takes SEC to Court Over Spot Bitcoin ETF Application
Grayscale Investments filed a “petition for review” Wednesday challenging the decision by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) to deny the company’s application to convert the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC) to a spot bitcoin exchange-traded fund (ETF).

Michael Sonnenshein, Grayscale’s CEO, tweeted soon after the SEC rejected his company’s application: “We’ve filed a lawsuit against the SEC.”

Sonnenshein commented: “We are deeply disappointed by and vehemently disagree with the SEC’s decision to continue to deny spot Bitcoin ETFs from coming to the U.S. market.” He added:

We believe American investors overwhelmingly voiced a desire to see GBTC convert to a spot bitcoin ETF, which would unlock billions of dollars of investor capital while bringing the world’s largest bitcoin fund further into the U.S. regulatory perimeter.

Donald B. Verrilli Jr., Grayscale’s senior legal strategist and former U.S. solicitor general, detailed:

The SEC is failing to apply consistent treatment to similar investment vehicles, and is therefore acting arbitrarily and capriciously in violation of the Administrative Procedure Act and Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

The lawyer continued: “There is a compelling, common-sense argument here, and we look forward to resolving this matter productively and expeditiously.”
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
news.bitcoin.com/grayscale-files-laws...

[verwijderd] 13 juli 2022 10:06

0

quote:
voda schreef op 12 juli 2022 15:15:
Thijs (22) kocht voor 7000 euro aan cryptomunten: ‘Zijn nu nog maar een derde waard’

GELD & GELUK
In deze rubriek vragen we lezers naar hun relatie tussen Geld en Geluk. Na zijn studie wil Thijs in vastgoed investeren. ‘Mijn cryptomunten zijn nog maar een derde waard van wat ik heb betaald.’

Edith Andriesse > 11-07-22, 10:00

‘Met mijn bijbaan bij een bedrijf in de installatietechniek, waar ik 32 uur per maand werk, verdien ik zo’n 600 euro per maand. Ik had goed gespaard voor mijn studie, door veel te werken. Daarom hoef ik nu niet te lenen.

Het is prima te doen. Mijn huur is maar 310 euro in de maand, inclusief gas, water en licht.

Voor meer, zie link:

www.ad.nl/geld/thijs-22-kocht-voor-70...

En Annie kocht aandelen ING in 2018, zijn nu nog maar net iets meer dan de helft waard...
En Henk kocht aandelen ASMI in 2021, zijn nu nog minder dan de helft waard...
En Piet kocht aandelen Unibail in 2015, zijn nu nog maar een vijfde waard...
En Truus dan , die kocht aandelen Air France/KLM in 2021, nu nog maar 40% waard...

En zo kunnen we nog wel even doorgaan..
Ik wilde het artikeltje lezen maar het is alleen voor leden. Dan heeft het weinig zin om de link hier te plaatsen, lijkt me.

Fred 62 13 juli 2022 17:56

2

quote:
Enzo123 schreef op 13 juli 2022 10:06:
[...]
En Annie kocht aandelen ING in 2018, zijn nu nog maar net iets meer dan de helft waard...
En Henk kocht aandelen ASMI in 2021, zijn nu nog minder dan de helft waard...
En Piet kocht aandelen Unibail in 2015, zijn nu nog maar een vijfde waard...
En Truus dan , die kocht aandelen Air France/KLM in 2021, nu nog maar 40% waard...

Enkele van deze aandelen hebben wel nog wat dividend
uitgekeerd.
En als je belegd in Air France - KLM ben je niet goed.

HCohen 14 juli 2022 08:17

1

EU Regulator Warns About Crypto — Questions Whether Many Will Survive
news.bitcoin.com/eu-regulator-warns-a...

European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA) Chair Verena Ross says that the crypto market crash should be a “cautionary lesson” for investors. She noted that there is a “real question” about whether many crypto assets will survive.

ESMA Chair on Crypto Risks and Regulation
Verena Ross, chair of the European Securities and Markets Authority (ESMA), has cautioned investors about cryptocurrency investing after the crypto market lost 70% of its value, the Financial Times reported Sunday.

Emphasizing that there was no prospect of a European bailout for out-of-pocket crypto investors, she said:

We already warned earlier this year?.?.?.?about the serious risks retail investors were taking investing in some of the crypto assets.

ESMA will be responsible for licensing crypto asset service providers as recently agreed in Brussels as part of the provisional agreement on the Markets in Crypto-Assets (MiCA) proposal. The deal will enter into force from mid-2023 and has an 18-month implementation period.

The regulator will have the power to ban or restrict crypto platforms if they are seen to not properly protect investors, or threaten market integrity or financial stability.

Ross expressed concerns about small investors losing money, citing that the global crypto market has shrunk by more than 70% in the past year. In May, cryptocurrency terra (LUNA) and stablecoin terrausd (UST) collapsed, wiping out many investors. She opined:

I think there is a real question about whether many of these [crypto assets] will survive.

The chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Gary Gensler, warned in May after the collapse of LUNA and UST that many crypto tokens will fail.

The ESMA chair continued: “I hope that some of these investors will see this and will take a cautionary lesson at least to think about how much of their money they invest in these kinds of assets.”

In March, ESMA and other leading European financial regulators warned consumers that “many crypto assets are highly risky and speculative,” noting that investors “face the very real possibility of losing all their invested money if they buy these assets.”

Ross was further quoted as saying:

We have all said that this is something that is not currently regulated, not something where there is any control over the providers … We know there is a lot of fraud and aggressive marketing going on.

Last month, the president of the European Central Bank (ECB), Christine Lagarde, warned that crypto assets and decentralized finance (defi) could pose financial stability risks. “This would be particularly the case if the rapid growth of crypto-asset markets and services continue … and the interconnectedness with both the traditional financial sector and the broader economy is intensified,” she stressed.

On Monday, the Financial Stability Board (FSB) announced that it will deliver a report outlining a robust regulatory framework for crypto assets to the G20 finance ministers and central bank governors in October.

voda 14 juli 2022 08:32

1

quote:
Enzo123 schreef op 13 juli 2022 10:06:
[...]
En Annie kocht aandelen ING in 2018, zijn nu nog maar net iets meer dan de helft waard...
En Henk kocht aandelen ASMI in 2021, zijn nu nog minder dan de helft waard...
En Piet kocht aandelen Unibail in 2015, zijn nu nog maar een vijfde waard...
En Truus dan , die kocht aandelen Air France/KLM in 2021, nu nog maar 40% waard...

En zo kunnen we nog wel even doorgaan..
Ik wilde het artikeltje lezen maar het is alleen voor leden. Dan heeft het weinig zin om de link hier te plaatsen, lijkt me.

Het was een uitgebreider artikel. De rest van het artikel was niet bitcoin gerelateerd, vandaar de inkorting van het artikel en vermelding van de bron. Ik vermeld trouwens bijna altijd de bron, tenzij uit het artikel al blijkt waar het vandaan komt.

Leefloon 14 juli 2022 09:48

0

quote:
Fred 60 schreef op 13 juli 2022 17:56:
Enkele van deze aandelen hebben wel nog wat dividend uitgekeerd.

't is ook weer zo'n wanhopig gezocht dwaalspoor en schijndiscutie. Ook indien álle commerciële banken staatsbanken zouden moeten worden om niet acuut om te vallen, wordt cryptomeuk daardoor niet plotsklaps de gewensdroomde oplossing.

HCohen 14 juli 2022 12:23

1

Charlie Munger: Everybody Should Avoid Crypto 'as if It Were an Open Sewer, Full of Malicious Organisms'
news.bitcoin.com/charlie-munger-every...

Berkshire Hathaway Vice Chairman Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right-hand man, has a message for investors considering cryptocurrency. “Never touch it,” he stressed, adding that everyone should follow his example and avoid crypto “as if it were an open sewer, full of malicious organisms.”

Charlie Munger Reaffirms His Anti-Crypto Stance
Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett’s right-hand man and longtime business partner, threw more insults at cryptocurrency in an interview with The Australian Financial Review, published Tuesday. Munger previously called bitcoin “rat poison” and said last year that he hated the success of BTC.

Noting that the “crypto craze” is a “mass folly,” he told the publication:

I think anybody that sells this stuff is either delusional or evil. I won’t touch the crypto.

The Berkshire executive continued: “I’m not interested in undermining the national currencies of the world.”

Munger was then asked what advice he would give to other investors who may be considering investing in cryptocurrency. “Total avoidance is the correct policy,” he replied, adding:

Never touch it. Never buy it. Let it pass by.

Like Buffett, Munger believes that stocks of real cash-generating companies are better investments. “Stocks have a real interest in real businesses,” he stressed.

In contrast, “Crypto is an investment in nothing, and the guy who’s trying to sell you an investment in nothing says, ‘I have a special kind of nothing that’s difficult to make more of,'” he described.

Munger emphasized: “I don’t want to buy a piece of nothing, even if somebody tells me they can’t make more of it … I regard it as almost insane to buy this stuff or to trade in it.” He elaborated:

I just avoid it as if it were an open sewer, full of malicious organisms. I just totally avoid and recommended everybody else follow my example.

Munger has never been a fan of bitcoin or any other cryptocurrencies. In February, he said that the government should ban BTC, calling it a “venereal disease.” He has praised China several times in the past for banning crypto, stating that he wished cryptocurrency has never been invented. In May last year, he said that bitcoin was “disgusting and contrary to the interest of civilization.”

In May, Munger said: “I try and avoid things that are stupid and evil and make me look bad in comparison to somebody else — and bitcoin does all three.” He added, “It’s stupid because it’s still likely to go to zero.”

HCohen 14 juli 2022 16:56

1

Embattled crypto lender Celsius files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy
www.axios.com/2022/07/14/crypto-celsi...
Celsius Network on Wednesday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after the embattled crypto lender halted customer withdrawals in the face of insolvency. Celsius is casting its bankruptcy as a restructuring rather than a liquidation.

Why it matters: The firm is just one among several platforms in crisis amid the great debt unwinding that marks this crypto winter, leaving their customers—many of whom were regular people drawn in by the firm's promises of uber-high yields—in the lurch.

New Jersey-based firm Celsius Network Inc. and its units all filed for bankruptcy protections in the Southern District of New York.
Celsius has more than 100,000 creditors, seemingly in all corners of the world.

The largest among them is Cayman Islands-based Pharos USD Fund with a claim on roughly $81 million.
Ohio-based ICB Solutions and California-based the Caen Group LLC each respectively hold a claim on a little over $13 million.
FTX's Alameda Research has a claim on almost $13 million.
All of Celsius' 50 largest creditors' claims are shown as "unliquidated," unlike Voyager Digital's.
What they're saying: Celsius, via its Chapter 11 proceedings, is seeking the "opportunity to stabilize its business and consummate a comprehensive restructuring transaction that maximizes value for stakeholders."

Whether stakeholders refers also to their customer base of roughly 300,000 active users with account balances greater than $100 remains to be seen.
What's next: Filings reference CEO Alex Mashinsky's declaration, but it has yet to be submitted.

Flashback: The bankruptcy filing was submitted hours after Celsius paid off its last major outstanding DeFi loan, seeking to recoup roughly $1 billion in collateral.

On-chain activity showed a wallet associated with Celsius paying $50 million in DAI, that is MakerDAO's dollar-pegged stablecoin, to Defi lender Compound.
Catch up quick: Many crypto shops have been stretched thin as massive debt built up in the crypto ecosystem came to bear when coin prices took a swan dive, pushing firms to lay off employees—some reducing headcount by as much as 45%.

More than a dozen companies have reduced headcount, including Coinbase Inc., Crypto.com, the Winklevoss twins' Gemini, Coinbase-backed Vauld, BitMex and BitOasis.
Crypto lenders including Voyager Digital, which was the first to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, have either halted customer withdrawals or gated services. Others include CoinFlex, which is involved in a dispute with bitcoin evangelist Roger Ver over an alleged unpaid loan.
A judge just days ago froze Three Arrows Capital assets, saying that only the assigned liquidators have the authority to “transfer, encumber or otherwise dispose of any assets of the Debtor located within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”
Between the lines: A lawsuit against Celsius filed by its former investment manager last week accused the crypto lender of being a "Ponzi scheme" that allegedly used customer deposits to engage in risky DeFi strategies.

Celsius is requesting that its utility providers — which include AT&T, Spectrum and Verizon Wireless — "be forbidden from altering, refusing, or discontinuing service or requiring additional assurance of payment."

HCohen 15 juli 2022 17:05

2

Putin Signs Law Prohibiting Payments With Digital Assets in Russia
news.bitcoin.com/putin-signs-law-proh...
President Vladimir Putin of Russia has signed into law a bill banning payments with digital financial assets. The legislation obliges exchange operators to refuse to process transactions facilitating the use of DFAs, a legal category currently covering cryptocurrencies, as “monetary surrogates.”

President Putin Approves Legislation Banning Digital Asset Payments in Russian Federation
Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a law imposing direct restrictions on the use of digital financial assets (DFAs) as a means of payment inside his country, the crypto page of the RBC business news portal reported. The ban applies to utilitarian digital rights (UDRs) as well.

Russia is yet to comprehensively regulate cryptocurrencies, but the law “On Digital Financial Assets,” which went into force in January 2021, introduced the two legal terms. Russian officials have in the past indicated that DFA encompasses cryptocurrencies while UDR applies to various tokens. This fall, Russian lawmakers will review a new bill “On Digital Currency” designed to fill the regulatory gaps.

The legislation approved now by Russia’s head of state was filed with the State Duma, the Russian parliament’s lower house, on June 7 by the Chairman of the Financial Market Committee Anatoly Aksakov, and adopted a month later. Until now, Russian law did not explicitly prohibit payments with digital assets, although “monetary surrogates” are banned and the status of the ruble as the only legal tender is enshrined.

While the bill outlaws the exchange of DFAs “for transferred goods, performed works, rendered services,” it leaves the door open for cases of DFA payments envisaged in other federal laws. Amid expanding financial restrictions, imposed as part of Western sanctions over the invasion of Ukraine, a proposal to legalize small-scale crypto payments in foreign trade with Russia’s partners has been gaining support in Moscow.

Along with banning direct payments with digital financial assets, the law also obliges the operators of platforms offering exchange services to reject any transactions that can potentially lead to the use of DFAs to substitute the Russian ruble as a payment instrument.

The new legislation will enter into force 10 days after its publication in Russia’s government gazette. Regarding the option for exemptions in its application, the RBC report notes that Russian legal experts have already highlighted certain controversies in the document.

HCohen 16 juli 2022 11:48

1

Spanish Crypto Exchange Bit2me to Rescue 2gether Customers After Account Block bit2me
news.bitcoin.com/spanish-crypto-excha...

Bit2me, a Spanish cryptocurrency exchange, is looking to absorb customers of 2gether, another Spanish exchange, after the company blocked access to its trading platform. Bit2me will pay the €20 fee that 2gether imposed on its customers to continue trading on its platform. The customers will be able to keep trading on Bit2me’s platform, having their assets transferred there.

Bit2me to Absorb 2gether Customers
Bit2me, a Spanish cryptocurrency exchange, announced its intention of absorbing customers whose accounts were blocked by 2gether, another Spanish cryptocurrency exchange, last week. The company disclosed a plan that would allow customers to move their funds and accounts to its platform to continue trading.

According to information explained in a blog post, Bit2me would reimburse the €20 ($20.00) fee that 2gether told users they had to pay to keep operating using its platform. The intention would be to keep these users in the crypto environment. Leif Ferreira, co-founder and CEO of Bit2me, declared:

Training, knowledge, and innovation are the keys to bringing this sector to the whole of society. At Bit2Me we are committed to what we believe. For us, the world of cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology is and will be key to our present and future. For that reason, we want to be next to 2gether users who want to continue to be linked to the crypto ecosystem.

2gether Woes
2gether informed its customers about the problems it had been facing earlier this month when the exchange blocked access to customers and deleted its presence from social media, affecting 100,000 customers. The company informed its customers that, as a result of the recent market downturn, it would be unable to keep supporting free accounts.

Also at that time, the company imposed a one-time €20 fee on its users, in order for them to continue utilizing platform services. However, customers whose accounts’ funds were below that number would be liquidated. While 2gether reported having been affected by the market situation, in contrast, Bit2me has continued to operate normally, even expanding its operations to Latam.

Bit2me announced the establishment of a new office in Brazil in May, to tackle the market of more than 20 million customers that hold crypto in the country, with compliance and security as goals. In the same vein, the company was the first to receive authorization from the Central Bank of Spain to operate as a regulated virtual asset service provider (VASP), in February.

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